We recorded this week’s episode shortly after the passing of Christina’s grandmother Mimi so inevitably death was on our minds. How it is both an ending and a transformation. We talked about the incredible mysticism that surrounded Mimi’s passing and the gifts emerging within Christina - gifts she always knew were there, but is now coming into conscious relationship with. We talked about vulnerability and leading with it, and how the release of control opens up the door to wonder and possibility. We consciously left in this episode the grappling that we both do in these conversations. The wrestling for words and the pausing to ask for permission. Thank you for listening!
If you want to learn more about Christina or Becky’s work outside of the podcast, check out our websites.
Episode Transcript
Christina: Yes, yes. This is what I’ve been thinking all day. Like all of these threads that I’ve been uh, uh, noticing from a distance and just being curious about are suddenly weaving themselves into one concise form that I’m able to understand. And I, I think you’re right, the Hildegard Von Bingen thing. And these other mystical experiences that I’ve been having this year have just helped me, um, flex this muscle and practice. And I remember when I was talking about my, when I figured out that my friend, I think I told you about this, but my friend Katie, whose dad passed away and I never knew him. Um, I started just like having sensations about him and I would just tell her like what I was experiencing, or I’m thinking about you and I, I think I’m thinking about your dad and I don’t really know why.
And then we figured out that my light totem hung right next to this wind chime that was in her window that she had made from his ashes. And so we realized that was probably the connection. And you know, living with that for like two years at this point. Um. There’s just so much. There’s just so much that has happened that has really allowed me to receive things in a way that I trust and take myself, take myself out of it.
It’s just profound. It’s also profound.
Becky: Welcome to Noticing: A Podcast About Nothing And Everything At The Same Time. We recorded this week’s episode shortly after the passing of Christina’s grandmother Mimi. So inevitably on our minds was death. As both an ending and a transformation. We talked about the mystical experiences that accompanied Mimi’s passing.
We talked about vulnerability and leading with it. And how the release of control opens up the door to wonder and possibility. We consciously left in this episode the grappling that we both do in these conversations. The wrestling for words. The pausing to ask for permission. So we hope you enjoy.
It really struck me, uh, that phrase you were using grief, likes a job or needs a job. I’d never heard that before.
And it really. Hit me.
Christina: Yeah. I had never heard it before either. I just felt it That was not
Becky: straight from source.
Christina: Yeah. Yeah. That was just like, whoa. Grief likes a job. Yeah. Yeah. Grief likes a job, and Christina also likes a job,
so Yeah, it’s nice. It’s nice to be moving, but yeah, grief does like a job. And actually I, I think I put that on an Instagram story with close friends and, and a close friend of mine who is also grieving for a lost friend who took his own life, actually. He or my friend was like, yep, that’s totally true.
Grief does like a job. It’s nice you just sort of like move it, move it through. Not to say that you ignore it. ‘cause I don’t believe, I don’t mean just like keep yourself so busy that you can’t actually sit and process the thing.
Becky: Yeah.
Christina: But um, yeah, just it’s nice to have something to do.
Becky: Yeah.
Christina: Yeah.
There’s a difference.
Becky: Mm-hmm.
Christina: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Becky: What are you feeling like you wanna bring into this room, into this conversation? I mean, your life is so full right now. I’m, I’m kind of letting you take the lead on, on where we go and what feels, there’s a lot alive. So it’s not necessarily what’s alive, but like what feels like it wants to come up.
Christina: I had thought about that too. ‘cause before Mimi passed away, we were talking about, weren’t we? We were saying something like, that’ll be maybe what we talk about next. Do you remember what that
Becky: we’re talking about? Self love? Oh yeah. Does that feel ages ago?
Christina: Uh, no, I don’t think so. Um, no, I don’t think so. I mean, Mimi is very alive in my consciousness right now, and like it’ll probably come up in this conversation through things, but, um, yeah, I don’t think so at all.
I just kind of forget. You’d have to start it because I, I forget where we, yeah,
yeah.
Becky: Well, do you, would you rather talk about grief? Do you wanna talk about Mimi?
Christina: Yeah. I mean, yeah, it’s, uh, uh, I don’t know what the way in is.
Becky: Yeah.
Christina: Um, yeah, I mean, like, I can’t, I can’t stop spinning around all this mysticism.
That’s, so that’s where, that’s where, uh, yeah, sure. What the fuck? Fuck it. Let’s just talk about it.
Becky: Um, is what’s the hesitation or what’s, uh, so there’s spinning happening, is there hesitation happening? Is
Christina: um, yeah, no, there’s, there’s hesitation. There’s hesitation only because, um, like, I, I wonder like, what is mine to talk about? Mm. That’s where I wonder. Yeah. Like what, because, um, there were times where I, in, when Mimi was alive, I would try to talk to her about things that were very real and I thought were on the table. And then I realized quickly they were not on the table.
Becky: Mm.
Christina: Mostly from a generational changed perspective.
Becky: Yeah.
Christina: Her generation was one where you could talk about everything except long list of things that you couldn’t talk about.
Becky: Yeah.
Christina: And I didn’t know that until I found out the hard way. Yeah. So part of me wonders Yeah. Like what is my, what am I allowed to, really, like, what am I allowed to say? Because a lot of this revolves around her life and death. And I am aware of things that she was protective of, but I also have been having such incredible experiences that have surrounded her death, her leaving her body.
Becky: Mm-hmm. Do you wanna ask her real quick?
Christina: That’s a good point. Yeah, that’s a good idea. Maybe I could ask her.
Christina: It’s like, what is my thoughts and what is her voice?
Becky: Hmm.
Connect to grounding court and let all of your thoughts flow down.
Christina: Yeah, I think it’s, I think it’s okay actually, if I talk about my experience, I think, I think she’s very much in support of my experience and my sharing my experiences with people.
Becky: Yeah.
Christina: She said before she passed, um, we were talking a ton this summer ‘cause she was, we were all kind of aware that she was slowing down, but she was still incredibly energized and just amazing. So we would text a lot on her iPad. That was her lifeline and she couldn’t hear very well. Her hearing, even with hearing aids, was so bad this last year or two. So texting was the way to communicate. And she, she did tell me that, um, I had asked her a question about this possible book. I wanted her perspective a little bit about this funny crossroads I find myself on right now where I am actively making a living with one art form and feeling the pull towards another and like what to do in that cross roadie space and.
She got so excited. She got so excited about the idea of this book. She was like, oh, I always felt like it was so, it was such a waste is what she used the word. She used a waste that I was able to read a lot of your writing and other people couldn’t, and I think you could really help illuminate others.
So, um, in her passing, what has become so illuminated for me, um, on the, on the heels of, of a, of this awakening time was just, just this incredible mysticism that surrounded it. Um, I, when she was actively passing. Like my mom, who I’ve already said on this podcast was a nurse in nursing homes. So she has a real sensitivity towards end of life.
Um, like a tenderness towards it, but also a sensitivity to like the cues and signs and things that you look for that actually means someone might be leaving us. And so she called me the morning, um, Mimi’s last morning, and through tears she said, could you, could you go get DA, which was my grandfather who passed away.
Shoot. Like I don’t even, I’m gonna get this wrong. Maybe like 15 years ago, maybe, something like that. I’d have to look at a calendar. But he’s been gone for a while. And, uh, and I, I did like,
which, which I’ve never actually tried to. Tried to do that before. Um, and the hesitation that I have, even in like talking about this is a, it’s still a little bit hard for me to believe that that’s possible for me to do.
Mm-hmm. And b, the sensitivity towards what is my story to tell and what is not. Um, but this was my experience. So Mimi’s cool with that, but it, it really was, um, I just, I just went, uh, I just went to find him in the universe and I went, when I went up to go, I had had a dream where I woke up in the morning this summer and his voice was in my, in my head, telling me to call her. that had never happened before. And, uh, but it was his voice. He had never reached out to me in dreams before. Um. But that was how I woke. And so I called her and we had a nice chat.
And then ever since that time, I just kept in really steady touch with her. Um, so then I just decided, well, how am I gonna go retrieve this man from the heavens? How does somebody do that? Um, one thing I’ve learned this year is that I’m not someone who really needs a guidebook.
Becky: Yeah.
Christina: I think a lot of people are comfortable with that, and I am just not that person.
Um, so I just went, I just went with the intention. I sat on the bed right where I was when he woke me up that morning, and I, I went to get him and he, his voice was in my head before I even got up there. And, uh, I’m working very hard to just believe what I know lately. Um, and yeah, I went to get him, he showed me lots of incredible imagery.
That I then delivered to her in a video that my dad played for her as she was dying. And very shortly after she left us. Like I, I think I helped. I hope I helped, because what I saw was this series of incredible images and experiences and I felt in my knowing which perspective I was seeing, so there were times where at the beginning he showed himself like a clam, and this beam of light split the clam.
And then I was shown this comet. Well, first of all, actually I was shown like this very still water where this, it was like a floating feeling of floating over this really, really still water or like a, you know when you see like a very still lake and maybe you’re on a kayak and if you look back there’s this really light flow.
Mm-hmm or a water bug that’s just gently sort of existing there. That’s what I felt and I thought that was her, that was her experience of like entering into some other realm. It was so peaceful. So I got images and a feeling and a sensation at the same time. So there was this still water image with a feeling of deep peace.
Then there was this incredible energetic comet with a tail of fuchsia and green coming in from the outer space. And that was him.
Becky: Yeah.
Christina: And he was coming very fast and then they combined the two energies, I will call them combined and. There was this spark when they combined and then they shot up into the sky together.
And when they were up in the sky together, they reached this threshold that I couldn’t see, but then they exploded into everything and I couldn’t see it past that. And then, and then the final image he gave me was the perspective of Mimi. And I just knew that’s what it was. And it was, I was actually given the perspective of being in her body.
And except at this point she was a child and she was sliding down, like I was looking at my feet as her sliding down this very white slide. And it felt really happy and fun. And so that’s what I told her. Um, and it was really interesting because then I got the call from my dad that she was going down the slide and, and, uh, and, um.
I kept hearing her voice in my head for like the next five hours. And I think a couple of years ago, I would’ve thought, you’re making that up, Christina. That’s just your thoughts. But I just know it isn’t. Um, and what I heard in her head was, or in my head, was her voice as a younger voice. Just, just like beyond jubilant, like so happy, so bubbly and joyful.
Um, just telling me what she was seeing and she couldn’t even describe it. She was just like, oh, Christina, you have no idea what this is. It’s just so amazing. It’s just so beautiful. It’s just so beautiful. And it was like, like I couldn’t see through her eyes, but I could feel how incredible it was for where she was.
Anyway, things like that have just been happening so much, so much. It’s like the, there was a little bit of the veil left and Mimi’s passing just like completely blew it wide open for me. Um, it’s funny, she sounded like she was on the other side of a long tunnel.
Becky: It that’s how it sounded to you.
Christina: That’s how it sounded to me. Yeah. When she went through I was like, fascinating.
Becky: Wow.
Christina: It was like, I was hearing it from far away and it got sort of farther and farther away and now I don’t hear that anymore. But I was like at my kitchen sink washing dishes and I was listening to her voice. Um, it really amplifies, uh, existence to have experiences like that.
Becky: Yeah.
Christina: And mystifies death so that it actually doesn’t feel like a death at all. It’s like a death of one form and a transformation into another.
Becky: Yeah.
Christina: Um, and of course it feels sad, but it feels like a much fuller feeling than that.
Becky: Yeah.
Christina: Um, grief is coming to me this time in much more of an expansive way.
Expansive would be the way that I would use it. And I keep thinking of the word immense. Both of those things feel true.
Becky: Yeah. It feels like when, so often I think we are taught or we’re programmed to make sadness small because we’re scared of it or it’s uncomfortable. Um, but when you just lean into it, it becomes more than just.
Sadness or it just, it becomes more than this one dimensional thing.
Christina: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And just, just meeting it as it occurs. Um, like I, I told you this, but when I, when we went, we went to our funeral and we came home and I hadn’t really felt, of course, I had felt, I had felt sadness, um, and I had felt grief very alive in me.
But it was mostly, uh, just a complete feeling of awe and wonder, this whole experience and this mysticism that surrounded it for me. And this allowing by an encouragement by my parents to share that with my family, my extended family. They, they had my mom called and said, would you send that video? Because I had sent that little video to my dad.
Becky: Mm-hmm.
Christina: And, um, and she said, would you send it to the bigger text thread, which is my extended family, cousins, aunts and uncles and everything. And I did. Because why the hell not?
Becky: Yeah,
Christina: why not?
Becky: I mean, it also strikes me that your mom would have her trust, her own knowing to ask you to go get your grandfather. I know. Like that’s not a common thing. Like she trusted herself too. In knowing what? Yeah. I don’t know. Have you talked to her about that or have you.
Um,
Christina: I mean, my mom is, she’s the one who walks into a room and just realizes that everyone likes her. She just, um, I think my mom has been in a front row seat. She’s had a front row seat to this whole awakening process for me, which is something I think she’s sensed in me my whole life and I think she’s, she just feels really connected to, to elderly folks.
She also is incredibly connected to her own spirituality. So, um, yeah, she’s had experience. She, she’s had some ex uh, some mystical experiences surrounded surrounding her father’s death. And her brother, adopted brother, funny enough, um, died of cancer and she had an experience where she, uh, where she was on a walk and asked.
Out loud in grief where he was and he showed up next to her and started talking to her. So there’s a, there’s, there’s a sharing in that. And she’s the same, just sort of like, I didn’t realize it, but there he was. And then when he left, he stayed for a little bit. She talked to him, and when he left, she smelled her grandfather’s pipe in the air.
Wow. Like these incredible, um, incredible experiences. So I have talked to her as I’ve expanded this past year. I’ve talked to her many times, like, do you know anybody else who maybe knows this stuff? And she was like, oh, well, now that you mention it, I was on the canal taking a walk, and I asked for my brother and he showed up next to me and like, you know, uh, I was like, what?
Why didn’t you tell me this
Becky: big deal? Just
Christina: I know.
I know. Um,
yeah. So, so she knew. She knew that I was just sort of confounded at the fact that, you know, I can go into like an IFS appointment and, uh, take a couple of deep conscious breaths and like meet the universe. And I’ve shared with her a lot of the journeys that I’ve had in there.
Um, and so I think then I was like, grief, I mean, dying exposes a lot of, uh, truths. So , I think for her to say it’s time and Mimi’s wish was to make it quick. She had hoped out loud that it would be fast and painless. I think mom was just assisting in her wishes to try to find a way for that to happen.
Becky: Mm-hmm.
Christina: Crazy.
Becky: Mm-hmm.
Christina: So beautiful.
Becky: So beautiful. So, I, I’ve been, like a, a witness to this journey through what you’ve shared with me. And I mean, it’s been profound to witness even not knowing Mimi and mm-hmm. Um, yeah. So that, I am glad that you’re sharing. We can always take anything out later too if you doesn’t feel in alignment, but I think, um, yeah.
I just know how much I’ve been impacted by witnessing the journey.
Christina: Yeah. I think I just, you know, at this point, ‘cause part of me thought I could just, you know, sit on this story for like a month and make sure that I wanted to share it, but I just like sharing my life.
Becky: Yeah.
Christina: It’s just something I have always felt.
I should do.
Becky: Mm-hmm.
Christina: And not because I think it’s like greater than other people’s or anything, I just don’t know. I just have a, I just have a real, um, interest in sharing experiences.
Becky: Yeah. I think it’s what connects us. I mean, we can, we we’re connected through, through stories and I think about, how do we demystify these experiences and how do they come into more of a mainstream conversation through sharing, you know?
Mm-hmm. And, um. Yeah. So I think it’s important to share because it, it opens up possibility for other people, even you asking the question, okay, what’s, what’s my thought? And what’s, you know, let me sort through my thoughts. It opens up a window to other people to question, are these all my thoughts, or am I experiencing something else?
Or hearing the story of your mom and like, smelling the pipe. You know, will someone listening to that, remember a time when they smelled their, uh, grandfather or grandmother who passed, you know?
Christina: Yeah.
Becky: You just widening the world of possibility for people.
Christina: Yeah. Yeah. I, I like that. I like that job,
Becky: and maybe it’ll shock them.
Christina: Yeah, it’s okay,
Becky: but maybe they’ll sh it’ll shock. I mean, that’s what I keep coming back to in your human design. It’s like you will, um, shock people who are ready to be, um, changed and transformed.
Christina: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. That, this makes me think of too, um, by sharing this experience around her death and all the ways that I have felt her presence, um, it has encouraged other people, particularly younger cousins of mine, I think to realize that they actually are also having these experiences. They just maybe would have logically explained them away.
Becky: Yeah.
Christina: Um, which I used to do a little bit. Mm-hmm. But I would still sort of keep these more potent ones in my back pocket in the list so that then one day they were finally just like, ba this has been happening my whole life.
I can’t ignore it anymore.
Becky: Yeah.
Christina: Um, so I, a cousin of mine came up, and we went for a walk and she had heard, she was actually in, in Mimi’s apartment when she passed. And um, this walk was a couple of days after I couldn’t be in the apartment, but I was definitely with her in these other realms, which was just as powerful.
And probably the reason that I was unable to go, I’ve realized so many things were barring me from actually being there. Um, and I think I was able to access these other places to assist in her passing because I wasn’t face to face with it,
maybe. Yeah.
Um, so anyway, back to this, this cousin visiting me here, we went for a walk and at the end of the walk after we’d been talking about all of the things, she sort of quietly just said, do you know how I can reach her? Do you have any suggestions of how I can do that? And it was such a great way for me to open the door for that question. She didn’t know that I was having these mystical experiences until I told her. Yeah. And, and I gave her some tips. And I, well, first of all, it was actually a really great exercise for me to actually think about how I did that.
Becky: Mm-hmm.
Christina: Um, this is why I actually love doing this podcast with you, because you help illuminate the processes that I take, that I actually don’t know I’m taking maybe.
Becky: Mm-hmm.
Christina: Um, but I think
Becky: because they’re so natural to you, they’re so innate Yeah. That you’re not thinking about it.
Christina: Yes, exactly. So you, you really helped me in that respect.
Thank you. I love you.
Becky: You’re welcome. I love you too, and I think a lot, so I’m happy to think for you. Yeah. You teach me how to be in a body.
Christina: Mm-hmm. Yeah. It’s really, it’s a great, uh, great relationship. But what I realized was if you can cultivate routine silence in your life, that’s step one. Um, step two is to believe what you feel or know or sense, um, that would be combined with like take your logical brain out of the equation.
Becky: Mm-hmm.
Christina: And step three is to love yourself unconditionally.
Becky: Hmm.
Christina: And I didn’t realize that that was step three until I said it as just a little offhanded comment and it was what come completely like broke her and. In seeing her reaction, tears just streaming down her face. I said, that is your way in. That is it.
If the reaction that you’re having is that huge, I think that’s the work that you have ahead of you, is to try to figure out how to love yourself so much that you believe that you can have these knowings and intuitions. Um, because honestly, I didn’t realize that was something that I ha like I didn’t have to climb that mountain personally.
Yeah. But I think you’ve helped me realize this, that, um, that that is such a basis for so much.
Becky: Mm-hmm.
Christina: Um, so,
Becky: and it’s a mountain that most people do have to climb because we don’t have a culture that really teaches or supports or helps people understand. That looks like. Mm-hmm. And it’s, so, to me it’s, it’s self love is like the foundation because if you don’t love yourself, you can’t trust yourself.
And you have to be able to trust yourself, to be able to trust those voices that are, or feelings or you know, whatever you’re hearing, smelling, feeling, just knowing you have to love yourself enough because how are you gonna trust yourself and like, trust your judgment if you don’t love yourself, do you trust anyone you don’t love?
Christina: Right.
Becky: Yeah.
Christina: Right. Also, yeah. So I guess that would actually be step one, because then also how can you,
how can you be in routine silence if you don’t love yourself too?
Becky: Yeah, that’s true. ‘cause you have to feel safe to be in silence with yourself.
Christina: Mm-hmm.
Becky: Yeah. We’ve talked about this before. When you’re in silence, the waters get still and you see everything that’s you’ve been running from or distracting from or numbing from.
And, um, as a protection that’s your body’s way. That’s, you know, your wise self-protecting you for things you’re not ready to feel. But when you sit in silence, I mean, you’ve said this about the sensory deprivation tanks that, um, after a while you know, the thoughts have to stop. Well, if you’ve got major trauma in your life or even minor trauma, anything you’re not ready to feel, all that stuff can be really damaging and scary when you sit in silence.
Christina: Mm-hmm. Yep.
Yeah. This is making me realize that maybe. Maybe that’s why I can access so much, because when I sit in silence, there’s not a lot that I have to, like, the stuff that actually comes up to the surface is stuff from everywhere.
Becky: Yeah, yeah.
Christina: Like I don’t have the, all the self-deprecating thoughts and big traumas, little traumas.
There’s not a lot of that for whatever reason, for me. So instead, like everything is available.
Becky: Yeah. And it aligns with, um, I’m no expert in the ancient traditions, but um, in. You know, in yoga , and I’m not talking about the asanas where you’re stretching, but the asanas are meant to prepare the body.
Like you have to prepare the body and the emotions and the minds before you ever get to spirit, you know, and we don’t have a culture that supports our bodies, our emotions, and our minds. So yeah. For a lot of people you have to do that work first so that then you can get to spirit.
Yeah. Um, and there’s plenty of people who are just born into body with incredible psychic abilities and just so there’s exceptions to the rule, but I come from a belief that we all have these abilities.
Mm-hmm.
There is just so much that gets in the way that you kind of have to clear first.
Christina: Yeah. Yeah. So accepting actually that I don’t have to clear that much, is is the work that I had to do mm-hmm. Was just stop trying to find the clutter because there actually wasn’t so much.
Becky: Yeah.
Christina: You know,
Becky: it’s, and it’s interesting because, um, I’ve kind of come into this realization this week or in the last couple days almost playing with this practice that I, that I told you about of receiving my life moment by moment.
It’s already been really profound. Um, and what I’ve noticed engaging in this practice, so the practice is, uh, for the, the audience. Um, I had this realization one day, uh, late at night, I was laying in bed and I just had this epiphany. I really saw how you, Christina. Seem to just really receive your life.
And I noticed that even in my energetic work, you know, it’s a lot of trying to effort and control and kind of mold my life to what I want it to look like and doing all this internal work, um, almost in service of molding my life to what I want it to look like. And it just struck me. Um, I was like, oh, that’s interesting.
And then I told you about it and then I, I’m practicing it, you know, this is what I do. I, I get realizations and then I practice and try it on and see how it, how it fits. Um, and it’s been really beautiful just receive, it’s, it’s just a framing. It’s not even like this intense practice that I’ve been doing, but it’s just a reframe in my mind instead of like going out and efforting just receiving.
And what the biggest thing that I’ve noticed is it’s shifting my relationship to my thoughts. And I’ve done a ton of work already, so this isn’t like the first thing I’m trying, but what I’m noticing is I’m receiving the thoughts. Like before I would’ve said, I have this thought. It’s like this framing of ownership, like it’s my thought and switching the framing into I’m receiving my life moment by moment.
Well, if a thought is presented, it’s like re, re receiving to me equates to like an offering or a gift. So I’m being offered a thought. And because I’m not o owning it, because I’m not holding it like I have this thought or this is my thought. It’s opening up this space for choice of like, huh, do I wanna engage in this thought right now?
Do I wanna believe this thought right now? What is this thought doing for me right now? But it’s like opening up this spaciousness because it’s not, it’s not like these thoughts are happening to me and now I have to effort to clear them, right? Mm-hmm. Like even before it was like this effort to come back to presence, like even coming to presence.
I think I’ve been doing a lot of efforting in that. And this just, this practice is creating so much space, for just receiving, um, so having a little bit more space, what I’m realizing is even the work of, um, healing or tending at some point, that can become something that I’m efforting, you know?
Hmm.
Having a little bit more space, doing a little bit less efforting, I’m noticing how even the journey of healing could be something that you could get attached to and like, you can, I could easily get attached to
performing or explaining like, this is who I am. Oh, I was even, Tara had her cousin here, um, her second cousin who’s like, she’s like 22 and knows herself deeply and is incredibly intelligent. And, um, we were watching a holiday movie and I am a sap, I’m a highly sensitive person. I cry at everything. And I found myself crying.
And it was like this super cheesy holiday movie, right? Not like the family stone where everyone cries. This was like, this was like single all the way, like
not quite Hallmark, but you know, you know what I mean?
Christina: Yeah, yeah.
Becky: And I found this, I, I felt this like. Internal dialogue. I didn’t say any of this, but this internal dialogue of like wanting to explain myself of like why I’m crying. It’s like, why do I feel the need to do that? Can’t I just exist and be present and receive the emotions moment by moment.
Um, and if she wants to ask, she can, but it’s like, that’s like the efforting of like, let me explain myself. Why? Because I’m afraid of judgment.
Christina: So like the practice of receiving moment to moment is freeing you from that?
Becky: I think so because I feel like when I’m in a state of efforting, which is more in the mind, past, present, future, all exists at once. And so it’s like the past that anything that’s happened in the past that’s shaped me is kind of still, here’s taking up a lot of room. But as I’m practicing more and more just receiving my life moment by moment, the past might still come up, but it’s, it might be one singular event or one singular feeling.
And then it, it kind of frees me up to, so like, embarrassment might come up, you know?
Mm-hmm.
And then I can have that space and talk to that, that feeling. Say, oh, what’s coming up for you?
Mm-hmm.
You’re allowed to cry. Like I was offered. And I think it, it kind of democratizes everything too, because then it’s like whatever the moment presents, if it presents tears, that’s the same offering as the embarrassment.
It’s like, oh, I was offered tears.
Mm-hmm.
Oh, now I’m offered embarrassment. Interesting. What feels more aligned? Where is each one coming from? You know?
Christina: Mm-hmm. And then maybe you can get to the place where you don’t even wonder where it’s coming from. You just let it flow
Becky: maybe. Yeah. I hope so. That feels miraculous.
That feels like totally inflow. And then just allowing, yeah. Whatever comes, um, yeah. Maybe. Well, I’ll keep you posted
Christina: because that’s what I was gonna say. Like, I’m hearing you parse all of this out and it’s very much you thinking, ‘cause that’s what you do.
Becky: Yeah.
Christina: Like thinking how to practice the thing. And then eventually maybe you’ll just get to practicing the thing.
Like when I got home and the grief, I felt like the wave of grief hit me when we got home from the funeral, I was like, oh no, it’s here. It’s here. The mysticism actually took a backseat and now I have to go let some balls drop. Yeah. And, and I did. I, I like, I did the little bit that I could, ‘cause it was Thanksgiving, so we had people coming over and, and I just went into the studio and left it dark and I just, I just let myself lay on the floor and, and like weep it out ‘cause that’s what needed to come out.
I felt this big ball in my throat and I didn’t wanna like, swallow it and let it stay there for a while. So I just went out and, uh, and let it flow through me in the moment it was ready to. And it’s not always that easy. Um. You can’t always figure that out. But then that felt like it wasn’t enough. And then the next day Andrew had to go to work for a 24 hour shift, which was always what he does.
And so I ended up just acknowledging that thing, realizing that there was still more to release. And I just asked for help. Like I asked, I called my mother-in-law and I was like, you know what? I would love to let all the balls drop and I can’t do that with all my kids at home. So is there any way that you’re around and you could hang out with them so I can just go let the grief flow through me instead of like shoving it down and momming to eternity.
And she said yes. And there was also the chance that she would say, no, I’m so busy, I can’t do it today. Yeah. But um, I’m getting better at that. I think I have a natural ability to do it already, but I’m getting better. I’m getting better at it.
Becky: At asking for help or for
Christina: Yeah. Asking for help to, to, well, just letting things completely flow through when they’re, yeah.
When they’re ready to, and not actually wondering about them. Yeah. Just acknowledging them, um, not feeling attached to any meaning about them, but just like, grief is here, grief is with me. I’m going to go be with that. And then see what happens.
Becky: Yeah.
Christina: Um, because it’s the same thing for laughter. You know, laughter is so much more easeful to let happen in the moment.
Becky: Mm-hmm.
Christina: But what if we could reframe it and, you know, because I’m sure that you sit and laugh at things and don’t actually spend much time questioning your impulse to laugh.
Becky: I don’t Yeah. Yeah. Because there’s no stigma attached to it. There’s no, yeah, there’s definitely a. Um, some cultural stigmas around the uncomfortable feelings, sadness, grief, anxiety, depression, fear.
Christina: Yep. Yeah. Even, even my son who is eight, he’s getting to that point where society still tells boys that they can’t have these sensitive feelings. And it’s really annoying that there are all of these factors because he’s someone who cries at movies too. He always has and, um, Andrew and I have consciously reminded him that his feelings are his superpower.
Becky: Mm-hmm.
Christina: And that his sensitivity like that, or that is something that he can treasure and, um, shouldn’t try to hide and so now he’ll, he still, he’ll try to hide them sometimes, but, um.
But, but he also, I mean, I’m not gonna go and be like, don’t hide, don’t, don’t do that. Don’t hide those feelings, you know, but you don’t, you dare You have to like find a way in.
So he still sometimes he’ll, oh, what was it? There was something that he was upset about, sad about, and he said, you know me, mom, and my feelings.
Becky: Oh, I like, yes. I’m gonna send you this clip of, uh, Andrew Garfield,
mm-hmm. Um, he was interviewed. Do you know him?
Christina: I think, is he British? Am I thinking of the right guy? Whatever.
Becky: He’s British. I think he is. He’s wonderful. He’s like what all men should aspire to be. Yeah. He was, um, he was interviewed and someone asked him, something like, what is. It mean to be a man or something.
And he’s like, really? We’re asking this question now. But then he paused and he, uh, the gist of what he says was, I think it’s finding the most tender parts of you and showing it often.
Mm-hmm.
That’s what it meant to him. You can show, share that to, to jack so he can be proud of his tender parts. Mm-hmm.
You should all be proud of our tender parts ‘cause it is our strength.
Christina: Mm-hmm. It’s really cool. I mean, Andrew’s a tender man, so he sees that. And even when we were talking, when I was sort of preparing my kids for the funeral, ‘cause we brought them, um, I was saying, you know, I told them at supper, I said, this is what’s gonna happen.
You’re gonna see a lot of adults in your life crying and being sad and just know that like they’re just letting their sadness flow through them and that’s totally fine. Um. And, and, and Jack referred to my dad as an emotional guy, which is really funny because he is that way. But I would not have categorized him as that as a kid.
Becky: Hmm.
Christina: Um, but I
Becky: Do you think he’s changed or do you think your perception has changed?
Christina: Uh, both.
Becky: Mm.
Christina: Both. I think when you’re an adult, you get to see all the facets of your parents. Yeah. If you’re lucky.
Becky: If you’re lucky.
Christina: Um. Mm-hmm. And I also think he has changed. And I, I mean, I often find that men as they age, get much more tender.
Mm-hmm. Um.
Becky: Their testosterone drops. No, I’m kidding. I’m kidding.
Christina: Hormones are very, they’re
a
big,
Becky: they’re, they’re a big deal, but that’s not the only reason.
Christina: Um, no, I think they, I think, yeah. I, they’re just, they just, I think they get more tender and Yeah. So I think Jack is meeting a different adult Yeah
than I did when I was eight.
Becky: Yeah. Um, interesting. So I was joking about the hormone thing kind of, but I, so we talk so much about, you know, hitting midlife and how. You know, our fucks to give are gone. I imagine. I mean, it’s not like it only happens to women, so I wonder if men hit kind of start hitting that point too.
And it’s, they’re just as trapped by patriarchy as we are, you know? So I wonder if that kind of opens up like, fuck it, I’m not gonna try to be this masculine man anymore. It’s not who I am. And I wonder if it softens if they allow it to.
Christina: Yeah. Yeah. I bet that that’s very true. Um,
Becky: I don’t have enough men in my life.
I’m like, they’re like aliens to me. What, what are they like?
Christina: Well, from someone who has many men in her life, I can tell you my observation. I do notice that, that as they, as they age, they allow more of themselves to surface freely. So maybe that’s just a universal truth, honestly.
Becky: Yeah,
Christina: I hope so. That’s nice to be able to let yourself go and, and be yourself.
But I remember even listening to, there was one a long time ago, but it really stuck with me. I think it was a Fresh Air episode with Terry Gross, which I love Terry Gross. She was interviewing Robert De Niro, who wept like four times in the hour, and he said, I’m sorry, I just, the older I get, the more I cry because I just realize how beautiful life is.
Becky: Oh, yeah, I mean, I think that’s why I cry all the time now.
Christina: Me too.
Becky: Most of the time it’s, it’s not sad tears. It’s like I’m touched. The Hallmark movie was not sad. I think that’s why I like the holiday movies because it’s like, it’s the magic of life on screen.
Mm-hmm.
In a very cheesy way.
But it,
Christina: Yeah. Especially if you’re an empathetic person, it’s so easy to put yourself in these more tender moments and to relate to characters and their experiences and, um, I mean, I think that’s why Jack cries in movies when we had his, uh, kindergarten teacher conference. She said, he’s the most empathetic five-year-old I’ve ever met.
I was like, yeah, he is. It’s a superpower.
Becky: It is. I hope he always owns it.
Christina: I hope so too. I think he’s got the right. Soil around him and you know, it might, it might waver and like, go away for a little while and come back. Sure. But so far the relationships he chooses to have are mostly very tender ones. He has found, like the friends he tends towards so far have been feeling boys.
Becky: Mm. Mm-hmm.
Christina: Yeah. I dunno, it’s an interesting thing to just sort of watch it all happen and try to steer things, be in flow, try to control, but realize you don’t have control. Mm-hmm. So you just sort of, my parents always said, that’s what we, that’s what like you try to do, you just try to guide and when your kids start to kind of veer away from themselves, that’s when you can step in and try to guide them back.
Becky: Mm-hmm.
Christina: Mm-hmm. It’s much more of a guiding than a controlling
Becky: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the controlling must come from fear.
Christina: Oh, yeah.
Becky: Just being so afraid. I mean, I, we don’t have kids obviously, but when we were trying to, we were on a path, as you know, to have kids for a while. And I was actually reflecting on it yesterday.
Uh, Tarra and I were talking and So we were reflecting on, so what hap like, why didn’t we feel ready? And I was like, I was just so scared, so scared of all the things I couldn’t control at that time. I hadn’t, didn’t have enough tools built up and enough self trust. Mm-hmm. Because Wow.
Christina: Oh yeah. I mean, parenting is the single thing I can attribute my, uh, ability to relinquish control in my life.
Um, yeah. I think it teaches you that I, you know, and I see other people who become parents. You’ve got the, the group that like doubles down and gets very controlling and very systematized about things and then the other half that, that just realize, oh, okay, actually this is pointless to try to control this stuff.
Becky: Mm-hmm.
Christina: And I fall in the pointless to try to control this stuff. Even as someone who’s very type A and very, uh, I love, I love to have control over things.
Becky: I love that. I mean, who doesn’t?
Christina: I know, but it is, it’s really freeing to realize that you actually don’t.
Becky: Yeah, you don’t. And that opens up the magic and wonder of life because if you are trying to control it from your tiny little human vantage point, you’ll miss out on so many possibilities you never could have even imagined.
Christina: Mm-hmm. Exactly. And, and you also can pick the things that are in your control.
Becky: Mm-hmm.
Christina: You know, like deciding when to take a couple of deep breaths. Yeah, typically that’s in your control. There were times even in, in like twin toddlerhood where I was actually not even allowed to do that. So then it was like, oh, my land, this is so frustrating.
This is the one thing I have left is like peeing by myself and taking deep breaths. But sometimes I would even try to do both of those at the same time to like kill two birds with one stone, and still I would have like bang, bang, bang, bang, bang.
You can’t be in there by yourself. So I, it’s not possible.
So then even then, in my last dwindling moments of control, I would still have to be like, well, I can’t even control this. So I guess. Whatever, whatever.
Becky: Yeah. Control is definitely pointless. I mean, it’s just you’re trying to prevent yourself from feeling hard emotions and that’s ultimately what you’re trying to do.
But if so, if you give up control and just accept that you can feel anything, you become resilient.
Mm-hmm.
Or maybe you have to come become resilient first. I don’t know what comes first.
Christina: I don’t know either.
Becky: I guess it depends on how you enter it. You entered it through the fire. I entered it maybe through a little more choice.
Christina: Yeah. I am fire though. I needed the fire. I, I have relationship with fire.
Becky: You are, I’m air. I’m lots of air, so I had to float into it.
Mm-hmm. Oh, dear friend.
Christina: Mm-hmm.
Becky: I love you.
Christina: I love you too. I love you too. Yeah. I think control is an, control’s an interesting, it’s interesting. I think you have to have like a fine balance. ‘cause you can’t just like let everything be completely out, then you would do nothing. You would just be like a limp potato on your couch.
I have no control,
so I don’t know.
That’s
true. There’s a, it’s sort of like a fine line between it, between, yeah. Two over overarching in your control and also, I don’t know.
Becky: Well, it’s like you, you can be choiceful and thoughtful, right? Mm-hmm. Like you plan for the moment, but when the moment arrives, you have no control over how it shows up.
Mm-hmm. I think that’s, that’s the difference for me. It’s not like, so, so even the way I was talking to you about when I sent you this message about you receive me noticing that you receive your life and I’m, I mentioned, you know, this book’s it’s not like, I think you just received this idea to have a, like you received an idea to have a book, you know, but maybe percolated on it.
Like there’s so much you in that and there will be so much you to actually bring it to fruit fruition. Um, but you weren’t trying to control the timing or like control what it looks like. Like that’s what I mean. So we have, I think we can. Make plans, we can, you know, get in touch with what, what feels like us?
What do we, I have a very clear vision on what I want my life to look like, but I don’t think it’s gonna come from me micromanaging and controlling. I think it’s gonna come from me just receiving. Mm-hmm. You know, even in the world of like manifestation and like dreaming your life. Like yes, have the visions be clear, but nothing’s ever going to come to you if you don’t release it and just meet the moment and be surprised.
Christina: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I think that you just have to have an openness about you. Mm-hmm. A receptivity. I would also call. An openness. Yeah. Like I have this idea and then you just like throw your antenna out there. Yeah. And say like, where, where is it? I don’t know. Maybe it’ll happen in 10 years, maybe. I planned for it to happen in 10 years and I have a great system of how to get there and it shows up in two weeks.
Yeah. And that’s actually different than I thought it was, but here it is.
Becky: Yeah.
Christina: If you’re open to things, into receiving things in more of a flow state in your life mm-hmm. Then you’re able to actually receive them.
Becky: Yeah. And I will say in order to be open, you have to feel safe. Right. I think of literally like opening.
Um, if you are open, anything can come in, you know? So you have to feel safe enough and secure enough, and trusting of yourself enough that whatever comes in, you know, you can handle. So that’s very true for me to even get to this point. It took a lot of, um, work and healing and tending to know, like, I know now, whatever.
I think this is the shift that’s really happening in me right now. It feels very alive. Is this shift from okay, I’ve done the work. The work never ends . There will always be tending. I’m sure other things will come up, but I have enough, I have enough resiliency, I have enough tools, I have enough trust, I have enough, I have enough that I can open up.
Christina: Mm-hmm.
Becky: And whatever comes, I know I’ll figure it out and like I can try, I, I can handle it.
Mm-hmm.
That feels pretty, pretty cool, I have to say.
Christina: That’s amazing.
Becky: Yeah. And it’s still, I’m sure it’s, it’s still a practice. It’s easy. It would be easy to forget that. Um, but yeah, it feels like kind of a turning point, which feels huge and exciting.
Christina: It’s amazing.
Becky: Yeah.
Christina: Just get to practice living from that place now.
Becky: Mm-hmm.
Christina: From that understanding.
Becky: Yeah.
Christina: Mm-hmm. Beautiful.
Becky: How are you feeling?
Christina: Good. It’s nice to, it’s just nice to talk to you.
Becky: Yeah. It’s nice to talk to you.
Christina: Mm-hmm.
The music was recorded live as a part of the Sound Service at 3S Art Space in Portsmouth, New Hampshire in January, 2025, where musicians responded to the changing light in the room that reflected and refracted through Christina’s suspended artwork. Andrew Halchak, the composer of this piece, is playing bass clarinet and Tomas Cruz and Katie Seiler are singing.
Becky: Okay, I just finished it and what your dad said, I completely agree. Because I feel the same way. Like I believe wholeheartedly with every fiber of my being our capability to, um, receive from the other side of the veil that everything is connected, that we can access all this information.
Yes, yes, yes. Like this has been in my consciousness as something that I’ve believed for over 20 years. And still, the programming that gets in the way of me receiving with such clarity and being in, like, it’s getting better all the time my connection to my own ways of receiving beyond the veil. And I realized like. It’s because all that programming lives in my body. And it, it’s a physical act of, um, like trust is a verb right through action. It will never come through just through me believing it. It has to be through the way I move through my day, like the way I breathe, the way I am
relaxed or tense. You know what I mean? Like it’s all in the body. Um, yeah. Now I’m kind of rambling a little bit, but I’m just so excited. I’m so jazzed. I am, um, I’m staring at rainbows all over my living room right now and just feeling like so much gratitude for you in my life I don’t know it, it’s, I don’t have words for it, but it’s powerful. I feel it. I love you friend.
